Agricultural Advisory Panel meeting: 9 and 10 September 2024

Chair – Dr Nerys Llewelyn Jones
Independents – Janatha Stout, Trefor Owen
NFU Cymru – Simon Davies, Dylan Morgan
FUW – Mark Williams, Gareth Parry
Unite – Jo Galazka, Barrie Roberts
Legal Adviser – Helen Snow (Geldards)
Welsh Government – David Thomas, Sian Hughes (Day 1), Ryan Davies (Day 2), Dan Ricketts (Secretariat)

Observer: Ivan Monckton (Unite)

The Chair welcomed all attendees to the meeting including Gareth Parry, Head of Policy at the Farmers’ Union of Wales, who was attending his first meeting of the Agricultural Advisory Panel.

There were no recorded absences or apologies.

Faith Ebhoaye’s time shadowing the Chair end on 30 August. The Chair wished to formally thank her for her contribution to the Panel during that time.

The Chair has asked whether there was an opportunity to be able to co-opt Faith on to continue the work she has undertaken, particularly with the sub-committee for Skills Development and Training.

The minutes were approved by all Panel members without amendment.

The Action Points form the last meeting were discussed:

Secretariat to invite the Law Commission Project Team to come and talk to the Panel at the September meeting – Laura Jones, the lead lawyer on the project, is currently unwell and will not be returning to work until mid-September. They are still keen to talk with the Panel so provisionally booked for the next meeting (currently scheduled for 5 November).

ACTION POINT 1 - Secretariat to invite the Law Commission Project Team to come and talk to the Panel at the next scheduled meeting on 5 November 2024

The secretariat will also collate the previous Panel discussions on the Definition of Agriculture and submit to the Law Commission Project prior to the next meeting.

ACTION POINT 2 – Secretariat to collate the previous Panel discussions on the Definition of Agriculture to submit to the Law Commission Project

Secretariat to invite Dave Ashford to update the Panel on the Sustainable Farming Scheme – only a general update on engagement with the Ministerial round table could be provided at this time. Information on budgets and payment rates was not yet available. Final decisions would not be made until the stakeholder engagement is complete – a meeting to update the Panel would then be arranged. The Chair requested that a timeline was provided with regards to information becoming available.

ACTION POINT 3 – Secretariat to request a timeline for information regarding the Sustainable Farming Scheme

The webpages refresh was ongoing – the Chair asked for this to be completed, if possible, by the next meeting in November. Welsh Government were in the process of changing the system used for measuring traffic, so the figures were currently unavailable. They should be available for the next meeting in November if not before.

Some biographies from Panel members had been received. Those who had not were asked to submit them to the Secretariat.

ACTION POINT 4 – Panel members to submit a short biography and profile picture to the secretariat no later than 30 September 2024

The Panel’s Annual Report for 2023/2024 was now available on the AAP pages of the Welsh Government website.

JG stated it was important for the Cabinet Secretary to be invited to a Panel meeting to address the Panel on the work being undertaken. 

Proposed SLM Objectives

Each year, when submitting the Agricultural Wages Order to Welsh Government, the Panel must show that any policy has been developed and implemented in accordance with Welsh Ministers’ Sustainable Land Management (SLM) duties under the Agriculture (Wales) Act 2023.

A paper outlining proposals for how the Order met the SLM objectives had been distributed to Panel members prior to the meeting.

HS outlined the proposals to the Panel. The paper sets out what the SLM objectives are and how the Order, in general, meets these objectives. There ere also references to specific Articles within the Order as appropriate.

TO stated that forestry and horticulture were referenced in the paper as the Order covers these workers as well as agricultural workers.

ACTION POINT 5 – Helen Snow to update the paper on the proposed SLM Objectives for distribution to and approval from the Panel before submission to Welsh Government 

The proposals would be included as part of the impact assessments undertaken by Welsh Government on the Order. It was also suggested the paper be published along with the 2025 Order on the AAP pages of the Welsh Government website. This was agreed by the Panel.

Agricultural Wages Order 2025 Proposals

The proposal papers of the NFU/FUW and Unite had been distributed to all Panel members prior to the meeting.

DM gave an overview of the joint submission from NFU Cymru and the Farmer’s Union of Wales.

JG gave an overview of the submission from Unite. 

The other members of the Panel asked questions on each proposal for clarification and understanding.

The initial proposals were as follows:

*if the Panel refuse to accept the position, accommodation allowances should be increased in line with the percentage increase of an A3 – Agricultural Development Worker.

The meeting was adjourned for discussions which took place over the rest of the day.

The Chair gave a summary of the negotiation position after Day 1. The matters to be attended to include finalising an agreement or a set of proposals to vote upon with regard to the minimum pay rates and allowance. The legal amendments to the Order also need to be finalised and approved.

There was still a distance between the NFU/FUW and Unite proposals although there was agreement on some of the grades.

As the new figures for the Real Living Wage and the National Living Wage were not going to be announced until October 2024 there were assumptions that have to be made using forecasts from the Low Pay Commission amongst others. However, if the negotiations were delayed until after the announcements there would not be enough time for the 2025 Order to come into force in April 2025 – the preferred choice of the Panel.

The meeting was adjourned for further discussions.

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The meeting reconvened and revised proposals were put forward as follows:

The proposed base rate for Grades C, D and E within the Unite proposal was set as this is halfway between the top forecast of the Low Pay Commission and the forecast for the Real Living Wage.

Unite stated the issues regarding the accommodation offset had been ongoing for a number of years and proposed the Panel set aside time to have a full discussion on this issue. If there were going to be major changes they would have to be based on solid information.

NFU/FUW stated that if there would be such a discussion their proposal would be amended for the Accommodation offset and they should be increased in line with the percentage increase of the National Living Wage.   

ACTION POINT 6 – A full discussion to be held around the Accommodation Offset by the Panel in good time for the negotiations in 2025.

The meeting was adjourned for further discussions.

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The meeting reconvened and final proposals were put forward as follows:

The Panel then voted on these final proposals:

NFU/FUW     -         2 (Simon & Mark)
UNITE          -         4 (Jo, Barrie, Janatha & Trefor)

The updated table as discussed in the last meeting had been circulated to all Panel members prior to the meeting.

The articles discussed were:

• Article 2 – Interpretation 
  • “apprenticeship framework”
  • “basic hours”
  • “overtime”
• Article 16 – Training costs
• Article 33, 36 and 38 – Holiday entitlement and pay

All amendments were unanimously approved by the Panel except:

• Article 36(4) will need to be amended further

A new article regarding unpaid carers leave was also discussed – including the article was relatively straightforward, however this would lead to unpaid carers leave being elevated above Parental Leave which did not have any provisions included in the Order.

It was suggested that Article 44 of the 2024 Order was amended to include the unpaid Carers Leave provisions which was agreed by the Panel.

ACTION POINT 7 – Helen Snow to amend Article 44 of the 2024 Order (Article 43 of the 2025 Order to include Unpaid Carers Leave and Parental Leave provisions

There were several amendments that had been requested by the Senedd  Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee within their report on the 2024 Order – these were all unanimously approved by the Panel.

ACTION POINT 8 – Helen Snow to update the AWO 2025 Proposed Amendments table for distribution to and approval from the Panel (via email) before submission to Welsh Government

All the agreed proposals would be included in the consultation document which would be drafted and published by the end of the month. The next meeting of the Panel was scheduled for 5 November by which time the new rates for the National Minimum Wage, National Living Wage and the Real Living Wage would be known and hopefully all the consultation responses would also have been received.

ACTION POINT 9 – Helen Snow to work alongside the Secretariat to draft and publish the consultation document on the proposed Agricultural Wages Order 2025

The Panel had previously looked at the Terms of Reference for the main Panel in 2021 – however they were not formally sent to the (then) Minister for approval. The Panel looked again at the proposed amendments. The only change was to ensure that horticultural and forestry workers were included aswell as agricultural workers.

They also looked at the Terms of Reference for the sub-committee on Skills Development and Training. 

DT stated that the Cab Sec had expressed an interest in the Terms of Reference for both the panel and the sub-committee so any agreement by the Panel would be submitted as a proposal from the Panel for consideration. As part of this consideration, certain additional elements will be added to reflect WG policies and Ministerial requirements 

ACTION POINT 10 – Dan Ricketts to amend the current Terms of Reference for the main Panel and the SDT sub-committee as discussed and email around to Panel members for comment.

SD asked if it was possible for the Panel to send a letter to all Education Authorities in Wales encouraging every school to adopt the agricultural GCSE course.

The Chair stated this could be one of the actions that came out of the work being undertaken the sub-committee. 

The meeting ended with all members of the panel thanking Ivan Monckton for his work on the Panel over the past eight years (and also with the England & Wales Board before then).

Next scheduled meeting: Tuesday 5 November via Microsoft Teams.